Parliamentary debate: Jozefaciuk:Dziambor (Feb 13, 2025)

Those debate notes were made by Dr Piotr Wozniak in the wake of the debate. For potential mis-representations due to faulty memory, I apologize

Debate Dziambor–Jozefaciuk

We are deeply grateful to MPs Artur Dziambor and Marcin Jozefaciuk for their willingness to engage in an open, insightful, and inspiring debate on the future of Polish education. They were the only parliamentarians who consistently responded to student outreach during the 2022–2024 student strikes. They not only listened but also spoke to students as equals, showing genuine respect for their voices. Much of our dialogue then revolved around Lex Libertas and its potential as a parliamentary bill.

The debate was hosted by none other than Jan Kuban, a passionate advocate for educational, social, and economic freedom. As the president of the PAFERE foundation and a Polish 2025 presidential candidate, Kuban’s vision for education aligns closely with the principles of Lex Libertas.

Debate of Substance and Respect

Kuban opened the discussion by asking whether Poland has the potential to become a global leader in educational innovation. From there, he navigated a range of questions about freedom in education. Despite coming from seemingly opposing political backgrounds—Dziambor from radical economic libertarianism on the right, and Jozefaciuk from a progressive perspective rooted in inclusivity and social justice on the left—the discussion was remarkably constructive. The exchange was substantive, respectful, and warm-hearted, with significant agreement on key educational issues.

Both MPs bring extensive teaching experience to their roles. Dr. Artur Dziambor founded a private language school and currently teaches at the university level, while Marcin Jozefaciuk is a school principal and an educator across seven school subjects. Interestingly, both have academic backgrounds in English philology and are fluent English speakers.

Student Freedom

The first pillar of Lex Libertas—student freedom—was and is the main student postulate. It became a central theme of the discussion. Both MPs agreed that passion and curiosity drive the most effective learning. Jozefaciuk emphasized the importance of identifying talent as early as kindergarten, while Dziambor suggested that the degree of educational freedom should be proportional to a student’s age, but the debate did not touch harfmul aspects of coercion at young ages such as teaching children to read before they are ready for the task.

School Vouchers

A core element of both Lex Libertas and Kuban’s presidential platform is reforming educational financing. Investing in young minds is arguably the best investment a society can make, yet the current subsidy system is inefficient and prone to political interference. School vouchers, which would place financial control in the hands of families, were presented as a solution.

Dziambor, a longtime proponent of vouchers, advocated for their immediate implementation. Jozefaciuk, while cautiously supportive of the idea, favored a more gradual approach with localized testing, similar to the phased introduction of private medical clinics. He also highlighted the unique challenges of financing vocational education, where training costs vary significantly. Despite these nuances, he expressed hope that vouchers could help modernize an educational system that has been in a state of perpetual patchwork revision since the 19th century.

School Autonomy

The third principle of Lex Libertas—school autonomy—also received strong backing from both MPs. They agreed that schools should have greater control over their vision, curricula, and teaching methods. Jozefaciuk, however, cautioned against the risks of absolute freedom, suggesting that some oversight is necessary to prevent undesirable outcomes. He also pointed out the challenge of predicting labor market needs when allocating vocational training resources. Dziambor, on the other hand, criticized the existing school inspectorate system as an unnecessary bureaucratic burden and advocated for schools to set teacher salaries freely, as is common in universities.

Kuban took the discussion further, citing Switzerland as a prime example of educational excellence without central government control (no Department of Education). He also pointed to the Netherlands, where a high degree of school privatization has fostered a thriving system that includes religious institutions, notably Catholic schools, which excel in academic outcomes and innovation.

If They Were Minister of Education…

When asked about their priorities if appointed Minister of Education, Dziambor emphasized implementing a voucher system to stimulate market forces and individual initiative. Jozefaciuk, drawing on his experience dealing with constant top-down reforms, advocated for a period of stability, arguing that continuous interference only creates chaos. He acknowledged our claim that Lex Libertas might be the kind of “reform” that lifts restrictions without imposing new ones. He also proposed streamlining regulations for special education as a separate body of law, reducing bureaucratic burdens on families.

In a highlight of the day, Marcin Jozefaciuk invited Dr Dziambor to contribute to the works of the parliamentary team for the Future of Education, incl. the subject of school voucher innovation. Dziambor accepted gladly.

Vision for the Future

The discussion covered a vast range of topics, from preschool to university education, general education to vocational training, and even the role of specialized and uniformed schools. The debaters spoke from the perspectives of teachers, principals, and school owners, demonstrating a deep empathy for students navigating the current system. They lamented the lack of educational expertise among political elites, citing Szkoła w Chmurze (School in the Cloud) as a prime example of an innovative institution facing bureaucratic hurdles. Dziambor noted that some politicians view the national curriculum as a civilizational achievement, when in reality, it often stifles student creativity and innovation. Given the rapid pace of scientific and societal change, he argued that static curricula quickly become obsolete.

Lex Libertas

In closing, the MPs were asked whether they supported the three pillars of Lex Libertas: (1) student passions, (2) school vouchers, and (3) school autonomy. Dziambor, without hesitation, declared his support with a firm “3 x yes”. Jozefaciuk, while largely in agreement, advocated for a gradual transition with pilot programs and data-driven decision-making. He underscored the need for freedom and opportunity, coupled with non-invasive oversight rather than rigid regulations.

Dziambor expressed his hope that education would be guided by visionary educators rather than politicians making incremental changes.

The Marathoners

A fascinating coincidence: all three debaters are ultramarathoners! Dziambor, despite his heavyweight frame, has completed a 60 km race and can still run 10 km in an hour. Kuban boasts a 3-hour marathon, while Jozefaciuk has completed an astounding 700+ km in a six-day race.

Thank You!

Our deepest gratitude to Artur Dziambor, Marcin Jozefaciuk, and Jan Kuban for an engaging and enlightening discussion. Their commitment to meaningful dialogue and the future of Polish education is truly commendable. We look forward to seeing how these ideas shape the national conversation in the years to come!